Reviews

Does Anybody in the Trump Family Know Shame?

7/28/2016

I had this thought while watching the Democratic convention Wednesday night:

Are the young Trumps watching? Do they hear what Michael Bloomberg says about their patriarch?

Do they watch President Obama skewer their benefactor, their teacher, just about he did at that press dinner in 2011?

How do they react to the gentle jibes of Tim Kaine?

What do they think when Donald J. Trump asks Russia, invader of neighboring nations and clandestine drug pusher to its athletes, to hack the emails of Hillary Clinton?

Does the word “treason” cross their minds?

By genetic definition, these offspring don’t have all of Trump’s wiring – the disabilities that do not allow him to take in information, that make him lash out. Certainly the spouses do not. But have they absorbed Trump’s mind set?

Do all those Trump mothers’ genes kick in and make the next generation fear the rampage he is on?

Do they know right from wrong?

Is there room for embarrassment when the Clinton commercial is repeated on the tube, showing children watching and listening as Trump makes fun of women’s bodies, of a reporter’s condition?

(Serge Kovaleski is a friend and colleague, a terrific guy, who has a condition called arthrogryposis, which limits the motion of his arms but not his work, his life.)

Do they ever try to bring up these ugly acts to Trump – or would he cut them off without a dollar, as if they were a vendor who had done honest work for him?

Are they touched by the church ladies who have known tragedy up close but at the convention spoke of love and forgiveness while calling for gun control?

What do they think when Vice President Biden refers to his late son, and talks about how the Obamas have become “family?” Can they imagine feeling that way about other people -- or other people feeling that way about them?

What do the Trump scions feel when Michelle Obama reaches the whole world with her speech?

We have been told that one member of the Trump entourage admires Mrs. Obama – Melania Trump, who used several chunks of Mrs. Obama’s speech in her own talk at the Republicans’ fearful convention. Or was that a weasel way of explaining amateurish plagiarism?

Are they touched by Mrs. Obama’s intelligence and dignity – or do they carry the same racist contempt of the Obamas that can be found under the rock of the Internet – and, oh, yes, in Congress?

What do the young Trumps really think when Michael Bloomberg refers to their meal ticket as a serial welcher and cheapskate, who got his start with a $1-million loan from his old man? Are they impressed with Bloomberg’s billions-of-dollars charity, or do they think to themselves, “chump?”

The cliché is that the Trump kids seem okay, that they don’t have the bullying tactics of the old man. One reporter went hunting with the two older Trump sons and found them not obnoxious or repellent.

But is there room in their hearts for self-awareness? For shame?

John McDermott

7/28/2016 12:10:38 pm

I'm with Mike.

Brian Savin

7/28/2016 08:45:47 pm

George, this is way out of line. Leave the Trump kids out of this. If you insist, I will go down what you wrote paragraph by paragraph and I believe I can demonstrate -- including to you -- that what you wrote is disrespectful and way too personal to people who don't deserve to be the objects of your unjustified vitriol. I have disagreed with you sometimes over the years in what you write, but I learn from you and I've always found you to be within the bounds of reason and compassion. This is the first time -- ever-- I consider what you have written to be out of line and, frankly, indefensible. In my opinion, I wish you would delete this post and start over and maybe I can then understand whatever point you are trying to make.
Best
Brian

George Vecsey

7/28/2016 09:56:27 pm

Brian, thanks for your honest. I consider you one of the most thoughtful people to comment on this site so I take your position seriously.
I don't think my position is "unjustified" and I don't see how the offspring (the 10-year-old not included) can be said to "not deserve" scrutiny, if not criticism. They are willingly putting themselves out there, on stage, live television as supporters of Trump. I cannot separate them from him because the entire image is that they are 100% behind him. As a writer, and citizen, I can only speculate whether their inner lives allow for concerns about what this man does and says. I don't know. That's why I ask. I have no inside knowledge, claim no facts. I just wonder. However, one of the sons, Donald Jr, was a willing participant in an outfit called Cambridge that was just as sleazy as the "university" run by the father.
Comme pere, comme fils, I suspect. The NYT article on that:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/26/us/politics/cambridge-whos-who-trump-brand.html
The wonderful speeches and touching testimonies of the first three days (less about Hillary than about being a Democrat) only raised my curiosity --perfectly valid -- about what these younger people think of the Democratic showing. I'm a writer, so I wrote something. I suspect I'm not the only one who wonders about this. They are not innocents. They are with Donald Trump. Inside? Well, that's my question. Thanks for making me think, as always. GV

Brian Savin

7/28/2016 11:55:49 pm

George, leave the kids out of it. If you won't, and claim journalistic privilege -- to which you are entitled more than 99.9% of others in your profession -- then, doesn't a journalist need to deal with the question of the children of both the candidates -- especially given the context of parental conduct in which you brought up the subject? What do you think Chelsea should think about her Mother and her Father? Tell me there is a difference between the families that particularly condemns and faults all the Trump kids over the Clinton kid. Tell me about the relative sins of the parents and how it condemns the children.

I just heard the vacuous acceptance speech of Chelsea's Mother. Is that what our country needs? Is that the message that is going to heal our country?

I read a Chris Hedges piece this evening that made me think a bit more deeply that the Democratic candidate did this evening. It made me angry at Bernie:

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_1_percents_useful_idiots_20160726

George Vecsey

7/29/2016 08:00:28 am

Brian, thanks for the reply. My piece was deliberating done after three days of touching speeches. I wondered what the Trump children thought of it, and many of the things their leader has said and done.
I think "vacuous" is a fair description of last night. But compared to what? There is a vast supply of Clinton details and speculations.
As for Sanders, if he had signaled a walkout by some of his people, could that help get Donald Trump elected?
The issues don't go away. To be continued.
Thanks for considering me a "journalist." At this point, I am reading and watching like the rest of the citizenry (except for knowing a bit about Trump from Queens and having been around him at times.)
Best,
GV

Brian Savin

7/29/2016 11:51:26 am

My wife mentioned something the other day that stuck me as true. Political discussion in our community has taken a very personal turn. Many otherwise nice people will take political disagreement personally, no matter how outrageously they opine. Political discussion today engenders the remarkable equivalent of road rage.

That is a curious thing, because the quality of the issue discussion in our country as a whole is mostly substantively infantile, conducted with inadequate facts and reasoned analysis, and, frankly, it usually ignores most of the important subjects.

My own observation is that our politicians take us for idiots and we increasingly act like idiots. There is less and less respect evident in our political discussion and less and less that is off limits. Good taste? Forgetaboutit!

My late business partner, frequent mentor and friend often taught a course at Columbia U or Queens College. He said that the most savage interpersonal disputes in our society are those conducted within the academic departments of universities. And he said that was because there was nothing at stake. Nothing was at stake except the self-perceived reputations of the combatants.

Now let me say something to engender road rage: Donald Trump has articulated issues that really and truly need to be brought out into the open and seriously and substantively discussed and addressed. The subjects are trade, jobs, immigration, taxes, lack of economic growth, the capture of the political system by big money interests that extend well beyond the Koch Brothers, the curse of career politicians who have no clue and no concern about the public interest or effective governing. Trump doesn’t have any answers, but he uses real issues to gain attention. That in and of itself is an improvement that we must not allow to get lost. He has handily defeated the ideological nut jobs that have been useful foils to the manipulating oligarchs, most of who today reside in the upper reaches of the Democratic Party, and who use them as their cover.

So, who can build on those things Trump has done that are truly useful? Bernie could have. However, Bernie has decided that our country is a one party state – the Democratic Party. He seems to think the only way is to work within the one-party system. Maybe he thinks he can follow the path of Chairman Deng to reform. Deng’s reforms and his successors are backsliding and the political system in China is becoming a dictatorship and a cult of a single personality who is now executing his purges. Why does Bernie expect any better?

Here is a debate between the only great thinker of the Clinton Administration, Robert Reich, and Chris Hedges about what is or is not at stake in this election. To me, Hedges wins hands down. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr4cXH3Fil8

sam Toperoffr

7/31/2016 03:03:43 am

Is everyone on vacation? Isn't this subject of what constitues fair game journalistically worth just a bit more attention? I've waited these three days to see who would step into the breech and support George's decision to imagine what sort of people are the Trumps in their inner lives. I'll step in--really good provocative piece, George.
Apropos, but on the flip side, Camus said that if he had to choose between social justice and his mother, he'd choose his mother.

Alan Rubin link

7/31/2016 08:30:39 am

Sam—thanks for articulating the brilliance and courage of George’s questioning the values of Trump’s family members.

I have been slow in responding do to a busy schedule, but also because I find it difficult to articulate a reply.

Over the years, at least since the fallout from Reaganomics has corroded traditional Republican values, I have often wondered if their many mean spirited politicians really believe in all their harmful policies or was getting elected sufficient to justify their actions.

Trump and Sanders correctly identified many of the ills of our society. Sanders has been a bit inflexible in his ideology, but he has helped force a positive shift in the Democratic party.

Trump, on the other hand, has used it to go for people’s jugular in order to promote his brand.

There are many factors that contribute to one’s character, but parental influence within the home is most paramount.

I cannot believe that it is in Trump’s nature to have separate private and public values. “What does his family members truly believe?” is a valid question. I understand family loyalty, but do they truly support all his outrages and bigotry?

I thought about my wife, our children and grandchildren and could not imagine any of them supporting me if I was running for office exposing Trump’s views.

Our grandson just graduated from high school and will be voting in his first presidential election. Being from a liberal family in Madison, WI, it was not surprising to learn that he was a do or die Sanders supporter. His view back in June was that could not vote for anyone but Sanders,

The family will be visiting for a few weeks beginning August 1st. I’m looking forward learning what his current thinking is.

My wife continually tells me that I am obsessing over this election. How can one not when a bully with all of Trump’s baggage could possibly be elected and change the free world as we currently know it? It is not a perfect world, but there is always hope for improvement.

A Trump presidency would have effects far beyond our imagination.

I still cling to the belief that Trump will trigger his own downfall. His base will never change, but they are not enough to elect him.

More articles of outrage will continue as people of conscience continue to speak out.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/31/us/politics/donald-trump-khizr-khan-wife-ghazala.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

Gene Palumbo

8/1/2016 03:06:27 am

I agree with Brian Savin that Trump has “articulated issues that really and truly need to be brought out into the open and seriously and substantively discussed,” but I’m not persuaded by what Brian wrote in his first comment. After reading it, I went back and read George’s post again, and found nothing in it that supports Brian’s claim that it is “disrespectful, “too personal,” “out of line,” “indefensible,” etc.; nor did I find “unjustified vitriol” (another of Brian’s accusations) in the piece.

On a different subject: possibly some of you, like me, go straight to George’s latest post, without looking at the rest of his home page. I finally looked at it just now and saw something which, for all I know, has been there for a while, without my ever noticing it. It’s a link to his latest essay, “What do most sportswriters have in common?” I clicked on the link and really liked the essay. http://www.nssafame.com/nssa/news-events/george-vecsey-3/

George Vecsey

8/1/2016 08:50:49 am

Brian, thanks. Not sure if I was "respectful" to the Trump menage, but not sure I should be. Look at the patriarch's reaction to those parents who lost a son. I cannot imagine him ever being able to comfort anybody. Lack of empathy is an educated, civilized observation by the parents -- Trump's emptiness should be frightening, a warning sign. We fret over how to detect terrorists, and ignore warning signals from a dangerously flawed "adult."
But maybe that is where this country is, after decades of reality shows. We will see. GV

George Vecsey

8/1/2016 08:53:11 am

Gene: forgot, thanks for the plug for the article. I write once a week for that sports site -- usually shop talk, the changing world of wriitng/broadcasting.
That article is about the commonality of covering high school sports.
comments welcome.
GV

Brian Savin

8/1/2016 08:58:51 am

The “issues of import” on the front page of today’s New York Times and Wall Street journal highlight the ad hominem attacks of a grieving parent who finds himself made a surrogate of a political candidate and the defensive response of the other candidate. Sam, Camus also said that the worst tragedies have the smell of the office in them and bleed printer’s ink.

Where are the essential discussions of the issues that truly matter? You know, the ones that will in fact determine our future and our children’s?

Gene, ad hominem is a misdirection of time and energy; ad liberos is a shame. Leave the children out of it. If we don’t, how much better are we than the tribal chiefs who slaughtered the wives and children of their opponents in the belief it would get rid of a bad strain of tribal blood?

Still, if we lived in Plato’s Republic, and the demos consisted of the participants on George’s blog, our city would make Camelot look primitive and quaint…..

…..and I would seek wisdom from the oracle Vecsey on when the hell the Mets will put together a winning steak of more than one game, and whether we needed to build a wall to protect us from the coming tribe of Cubs.

bruce

8/1/2016 09:56:25 am

George,

interesting to see you engaged in a spicy exchange with mr savin.

i'm with you100%, but it seems to me the exchange with mr savin is typical of somebody in the news biz and somebody who isn't.

I believe, totally, that if you inject yourself into the public arena as the adult children of both families have that they're fair game for comment or speculation.

haven't seen this in the nyt but I thought it might be interesting for somebody to mention this and the Toronto star did.

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2016/07/31/is-donald-trump-ok-erratic-behaviour-raises-mental-health-questions.html

bruce

Joshua Rubin

8/1/2016 10:54:31 am

"I thought about my wife, our children and grandchildren and could not imagine any of them supporting me if I was running for office exposing Trump’s views."

I cannot for a second imagine my dad running for office on Trump's platform. But if he ever wanted to,I think one important difference between the Trump and Rubin families is that we could probably talk my dad out of it. I imagine there is not a lot of room in the Trump family to disagree with its patriarch or that he listens much to his family. So in a way I do not begrudge the Trump children anything because I shudder to think of what life would be like for any Trump scion who did not tow the line and then some.

Len Shapiro link

8/1/2016 11:28:02 am

George,

Fully agree with your original post. And there are so many baffling things in this election cycle. I keep hearing from people who say they're going to vote for Trump that Hillary is just dishonest. And then I look at the fact checkers who say that over 80 per cent of what Trump says in speeches and godawful tweets is just plain not true. And never mind all the people he's stiffed over the years, the promises made (to veterans groups for cash donations among others) that never materialized and on and on. So how how can anyone justify trusting this guy?
I'm also outraged and disgust4ed that people like Ryan and McConnell are still supporting this sexist, racist, bigoted, narcissistic, egomaniac who is an equal opportunity offender. First, I thought his comments on McCain would sink him. Then, when he mocked our mutual friend and my former Post colleague Serge Kovaleski, I thought that would sink him. And now, his disparaging the still grieving parents of a Muslim war hero over the weekend, should be fatal, if only Ryan and McConnell had the balls to finally say enough is enough and have you no shame and we're out. We can't endorse this maniac for the most important job on the face of the earth. How do they look themselves in the mirror every morning. Where is Joseph Welch when you need him. Have you no sense of decency sir. Havfe no you sense of decency.

George Vecsey

8/1/2016 12:58:46 pm

Len, good to hear from you. I just caught up on your 2010 farewell column (having just read Bill Rhoden's the other day. Yikes.)
Nice to be have Joseph Welch in a frame of reference. I did think of him -- and McCarthy -- as I used the word "shame."
MY daughter-the-sports-columnist says this outrage with that dignified couple may indeed expose Trump, but what took so long?
Thanks so much for your comment. Great to be in touch. GV

bruce

8/1/2016 11:38:59 am

len,

i'm sure there are many of us of a certain age or who know history who've thought of the McCarthy putdown on more than one occasion when it comes to the new gold standard for lying.

and you understate trump's lies. they're 'pants on fire' lies.....

as bad as trump is, and he is horrific, he wouldn't be able to do it without the backing of the 'folks'--as americans love saying, who swallow it hook, line and unthinking sinker.

country of rugged individualists indeedy.

bruce

Brian Savin

8/1/2016 11:42:15 am

I need to make a correction: the latin equivalent for ad hominem for children is "ad liberiorem." Should I suppose I didn't get any help on that from you guys because what I needed was help with the "accusative" case?
Best,
Brian

George Vecsey

8/1/2016 01:34:00 pm

Brian, parochial school education,right?
I was always in awe of kids who had studied Latin,. I thought it was a dead language until I started bumping into Romance languages at work or travelling.
Our grandkids take Italian or French (and hear Spanish regularly) and I tell them, "It's the same language."
Thanks for your input on the site. I value your opinion.
GV

bruce

8/1/2016 04:43:12 pm

George,

I went to a public high school. first year was 1964-65. English, French, latin, geography, history, science, math and typing. health and phys. ed were a separate report card. my only option was whether to shop or typing. girls had the option of typing or home ec.
in grade 10 you took bookkeeping instead of typing and you could add Spanish. can't recall what you could drop to take it since eight subjects was the max amount.
if you failed three subjects no matter what your marks, you failed your year and had to repeat them all the next year. for example, you could have 100 in eight subjects and 49 in three and fail with an 80.9% average.

and the teachers would give a 49 and smile at you.

ah. the good old days.

bruce
bruce

Brian Savin

8/1/2016 01:46:05 pm

Public school all the way. German in eighth, and four years of Latin thereafter. Miss Petty taught each of the last three. She'd be ashamed of me for getting that wrong, and probably to today's media she'd quote them Cicero: Quo usque tandem abutere, Catilina, patientia nostra?

George Vecsey

8/1/2016 04:44:04 pm

Quo usque tandem abutere, Catilina, patientia nostra?
To what end, Cataline, may I ask, will you abuse our patience continuously?

(Who doesn't love Google Translate?)

Alan Rubin link

8/1/2016 03:55:26 pm

I would like to add to Len Shapiro’s accurate but disturbing assessment of this year’s presidential campaign.

Trump’s character, rather his lack of any, is clearly demonstrated by his actions and statements over many years. No one created it to undermine him.

Clinton, on the other hand, has been the victim of over 25 years of character assassination by the Republican Party. Trump’s “lying Hillary” has doubled down on this.

There will never be a perfect presidential candidate and Clinton has has several questionable aspects to her resume. However, it is important to evaluate the total person and determine if the positives outweigh the negatives and by how much.

Many qualified and respected people have rated Trump as almost 100% negative. I would not normally give anyone a 100% as no one is perfect, but Trump is an exception. He does net even qualify for “even a broken clock is correct twice a day.”

This election has been called “the lesser of two flawed candidates. In selling, it is common to hope the customer chooses the least desirable of two choices. My experience as a retailer was that the lesser choice need not have been a bad one.

I do not pay much attention to “day one” and “first hundred days” promises. There are usually too many topics to accomplish and legislative approval is usually required.

More importantly, what are the candidate’s goals and priorities? Are they actually feasible? What is their vision for the country and do they appear sincere.

Two very similar articles that recently appeared in the NYT epitomizes what is so scary about Trump’s lack of knowledge and his bombast. He has no clue about the Ukraine and yet he embraces Putin’s policies and threatens the core of NATO.

A few years ago my wife and traveled to the Baltic countries, St. Petersburg and Moscow, in that order.

The first four days were to have been in Kiev, but that was cancelled due to Russia’s invasion of the Crimea. We were looking forward to a side trip to Berdichev, one hour to the west, my father’s birth place.

Our trip took up to Vilnius Lithuania, Riga Latvia and Tallinn Estonia.

Our excellent guide was in his mid-twenties and from Vilnius. We were somewhat familiar with Baltic history, but we were completely unprepared for the hated and fear of Russia that permeated all three countries.

They were terrified that Russia’s invasion of the Crimea signaled the beginning of a return to the old USSR. It is not difficult for us to imagine their horror of a Trump presidency.

Our guide in St. Petersburg seemed to be typical of young Russians. She said that the invasion of the Crimea was necessary to protect Russia from the West.

Our Moscow guide was an older woman with relatives in the Ukraine. She had lived through the old USSR and believed that Putin was covering up a bad economy with war scare tactics.

What is the old Chinese saying, “beware of living in interesting times”. I hope that we survive them!

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/01/world/europe/ukraine-trump-crimea-politics.html?ref=politics
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/01/world/europe/ukraine-trump-crimea-politics.html?_r=0

George Vecsey

8/1/2016 04:39:53 pm

Alan, it's a different culture, different mentality.
We were in Moscow 1986 for the Goodwill Games -- right after Chernobyl.
I loved Moscow. Will always love Russians from the nice people we met.
But our hall guard, military, in a very good hotel (Moskva) did not know about Chernobyl. Marianne told him to go to the base library and look it up -- he had clearance to read international papers. Next day he said to her, "You were right." His govt wouldn't tell him what we tourists knew about wind currents, dairy products, contamination, etc.
Same mentality allows high-up officials to permit cheating -- dummy laboratory, etc., Undoubtedly, Trump admires that.
GV

bruce

8/1/2016 04:47:42 pm

George,

I've used google translate for European languages and it seems good. not as impressive with Japanese.

bruce

brian savin

8/1/2016 07:44:50 pm

OK, I see collective political road rage is continuing on poor George’s blog which has been coopted by us – the inmates -- starting, I’m sorry to realize, with my own public reaction. As we await the Mets’ recovery and the PBS documentary on the ’36 Olympic rowing team, let me try to focus the rage, and perhaps add to it, but also perhaps in a useful way.

I have lamented that the media coverage of this election has been pitiful and a civic disservice. I have also argued that both major party candidates are pitiful. However, let me balance the scale of commentary and use today’s Wall Street Journal editorial page as the foil, because there is no place in this election for self-satisfied, cock-sure preferences between these two:

The lead editorial today urges the federal government to refinance more of our debt, taking advantage of low interest rates. That important subject has only been addressed directly by one of the candidates – Donald Trump. When he said the same thing as this opinion, in May, he was condemned as threatening the full faith and credit of the United States in the eyes of the markets in editorials in the NYT and Washington Post, and at least one crackpot that I recall in the Economist. But that is exactly what is happening in fact. Today’s editorial explains that the average due date has been extended by Fed actions. So is that a good thing? Maybe, actually, it is a bad thing. The interest rates are low because the central banks of the world have kept them low. That depresses wages and destroys any ability on the part of the fast diminishing middle class to earn money on savings or safe, fixed income investments. It is likely to be the path we continue on for a very great period of time because it is postponing the debt repayment schedule to the detriment of our children. By the way, it doesn’t hurt the 1% at all, because they can front run the central banks on the sale of treasuries and do well no matter what the rate may be. This subject needs substantive discussion, because it is in my view a horrible, harmful way to run financial policy to the vast majority of U.S. and world citizens. Where is that discussion?

Next. On today’s op-ed page is Peter Schweizer’s piece connecting dots between Clinton’s actions as Secretary of State, the Clinton Foundation, Russian oligarchs and Skolkovo. Now, for those believing the Clinton campaign spin that there is some Russian connection between Trump and Putin, those two are not alone in that back room even if there where some actual connection, which I strongly doubt because it doesn’t make sense.

Lastly, let’s turn to the front page of the WSJ and the NYT. The Clinton campaign is, in my view, much more blameworthy for exploiting the death of someone’s child, a soldier, as well as his grieving, angry father, than is Trump for allowing himself to be baited by such a filthy, uncaring campaign manipulation. So, where is a proper vote of conscience? I would much rather have a rest bit here and find relative comfort is sports commentary.
Brian Savin

Howie

8/17/2016 02:27:37 pm

I am late to reply to this. I honestly was unaware of your career (which is distinguished) and blog until I was googling articles on Roy Jones Jr., in the wake of today's Olympics boxing. About this column, I have to say - and I don't regularly comment on the internet - that I found this article in such poor taste. At the time, I get it -- Trump was leading in the polls at that time - I think partly because his offspring and their poise and admiration of the old man - made a lot of undecideds decide they like Trump, or can learn to like him. A small degree of panic must have registered. Because otherwise I cannot explain why you would just write such hateful nonsense. Treason. For a joke? For a joke about emails that Hillary Clinton had deleted while putting it on a private server. Huh? Can we ask Chelsea how she felt about that? Or about any of the other crimes and misdeeds of her parents (and I use plural deliberately). To answer your rhetorical question though is impossible, but if I must - they disagree with it? My wife has a good friend who is very succesful and a liberal and about 14 years ago, we attended a wedding with her -- I remember it well, she said, "I don't get it. Doesn't (Pres) Bush read the New York Times?". She said that without any irony or self-awareness. History is an echo.

ducklife link

10/10/2016 12:52:08 am

I'm Jony

Comments are closed.

Does Anybody in the Trump Family Know Shame?

Categories

Buy the Book